What Would You Do? « A Rose By Any Other Name

What Would You Do?

April 19, 2007 by Anna

I was watching Glenn Beck last night and he did a piece on Professor Librescu and the incredible bravery he showed in the face of certain death. Then Glenn asked if you would be able to do the same. Granted, we wouldn’t know for sure unless we were put in that situation and God forbid that we should ever find ourselves there, but would you be able to lay down your life for another? I wouldn’t hesitate to for my husband, daughters and family, but a stranger? I just don’t know. So, here’s a question for you…what would you do?

Posted in Heroes, Human nature, Opinion | 38 Comments

38 Responses

on April 19, 2007 at 8:52 am | Reply ron simpson

It really was not a bunch of people he did not know. They were students in his class. Granted, not like family to us, but maybe to him they were. He had dedicated his life to teaching kids. I think that a lot if teachers would try and save their students. On top of that, this man had no give in him. With all he had endured in his life, his inner strenght was amazing. I am glad the media is finally telling his story.
on April 19, 2007 at 8:52 am | Reply ron simpson

I think I would have done what he did.
on April 19, 2007 at 12:05 pm | Reply Brian

Anna;

As soon it happened we started to discuss the very subject at work. First it is important to know that I am retired military and many of my co-workers are either in the military or retired. What we found so distressing was that no one tried to take this guy out; after all, he had to reload a few times and this guy was not trained in any fashion, so there had to be opportunities. Yet everyday on the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, brave men and woman,the same exact age, stand up to a far greater threat and perform heroically. Why is it that there are no stories of bravery other than the Professor? What is about the college life that is so different from the military where concern is only for ones self? I don’t have any answers, but I would only say that we need people to start reacting like the good Professor did and the people on United Flight 93. Because if we are to keep this society open and free, which means we are always susceptible to evil acts, we must have a society prepared to act and if need be lay down theirs lives for those they know as only a fellow citizen.
on April 19, 2007 at 12:07 pm | Reply Anna

Ron, you’re right, they were his students and he did care very much about them and I’m sure many other teachers would have tried to shield their students as well.

The question is more about trying to see what’s inside us, would we be strong, would we think of ourselves or would we think of others?

It seems that there are other stories here about students who thought of others as well and I’m glad they are all getting told.
on April 19, 2007 at 12:09 pm | Reply Anna

Ron, I think I would too, but I hope never to find out for sure.
on April 19, 2007 at 12:22 pm | Reply Anna

Brian, your comment really touched me. You know how I feel about our men and women in the military and I think had one of them been in the situation they probably would have at least attempted to take him out. The military training is the biggest difference between these peer groups. The military teaches to think of your unit as a whole and not individuals, while many students are self-indulgent and it would never occur to them to think of someone else first.

Yet, there were a couple of young men in one room who used a table to barricade the door and kept it in place while the gunman was on the other side pushing against them. The gunman did fire through the door, but luckily the boys had placed themselves on the ends of the table and were not directly in front of the door. When one of these boys was being interviewed, the reported said he was a hero…the boy got tears in his eyes and said something to the effect that he was just glad he was there (to help).
on April 19, 2007 at 7:01 pm | Reply ymarsakar

Anna, Grim had a war gaming scenario about what people could do in such situations.

Link

I think preparation is the key. The Chain of COmmand, discipline, or training, they all are based upon preparation and pre-planning. Discipline does not magically pop up in bad situations like combat or a siege. It was instilled prior to the battle, either because of regimented training, punishment, rewards, or simply habit (habit of not slacking off).

The CoC is also not something that just magically pops at the time it is most needed. It is crafted before hand, and people are made to feel comfortable with it via prior arrangements. Tradition is the most powerful source of stability for the chain of command. Personal loyalty, being probably secondary or tertiary, depending on what loyalty we are talking about here. But that’s off the subject.

Certainly training increases the chance of success for people. But as a sort of way to make people react correctly, training is not as good as people think it is. Precisely because training is very specific, a person cannot be trained in how to react to every scenario, he is trained specifically in one scenario. Some things cross over of course, but not specific training. So in essence, I tend to think that if a person wanted to know what to do or whether they would do this or that at the time of reckoning, that person needed to think about the exact situation at VT before it occured. The more you think about potential disasters, the better you are able to plan and anticipate for them, and the better you are able to craft a plan, the less chances that you will freeze or make a blunder.

I respect the instructor’s strength in his beliefs. Because obviously his experiences during the Holocaust, gave him a core set of beliefs that he believed so strongly in, that he was willing to die for them.

But I cannot say that I would have done the same thing that he would have. I always favored attacking and inflicting more damage upon the attacker, than the attacker inflicts on me. And doing it first.

A year to six months ago, I kept thinking about what I would do if someone came into the classroom with the intent to harm people. Active imagination you might say. I seriously doubt that at Vtech, there were more than a handful of people who gave any serious thought to what they would do to kill and destroy attackers on campus. Lack of preparation, lack of training, lack of firepower, when combined, does not make good odds for the defenders.
on April 19, 2007 at 9:03 pm | Reply olbroad

I would hope I’d do the right thing, but honestly, I just don’t know. I hope I never have to find out.
on April 19, 2007 at 9:26 pm | Reply Anna

I think, Ymarsakar, it really comes down to what’s inside of you personally. None of us would ever know what we would do unless it happened. It’s a split second decision, choose life, choose to fight, choose to help others or help ourselves.
on April 19, 2007 at 9:27 pm | Reply Anna

I hope I never have to find out either, ol’broad.
on April 20, 2007 at 11:54 am | Reply THIRDWAVEDAVE

If you’ve never been on the business end of a gun, you have no idea what you might do. All you can do is hope you’d have the strength and calmness to be of help.
on April 20, 2007 at 1:41 pm | Reply Anna

You’re right TWD. And I hope I never am at the business end of a gun!
on April 20, 2007 at 4:22 pm | Reply GUYK

I don’t know for sure what I would do..I know what I have been trained to do..like Brian I am retired military. But no one knows for sure what they will do until the bullets start flying. I would like to think I would have tried to take him out..my anger at such a situation would take over and I would die trying to get to him.

However, one of the ironies of military training is that by some estimate as many as a fourth of soldiers in a fight will freeze at any given time..and this includes some that were heroes a day before and may be again in the next fight..as I said..no one knows for sure. The best thing is to prepare for it and hope the training takes over.
on April 20, 2007 at 7:34 pm | Reply Stew

Personally I’d begin singing. Maybe some John Mayer. If that didn’t cause the gunman to run screaming to the hills…, I’d deserve to get shot.

But seriously, he was an incredibly brave man.
on April 20, 2007 at 7:55 pm | Reply Anna

GuyK, I think you’re right about training taking over or “that something” that takes over in a stressful situation. Like the mother who somehow moves that huge piece of furniture because her child is trapped underneath it.
on April 20, 2007 at 7:58 pm | Reply Anna

Stew, you’re such a goof!

Just as there was a twisted psychopath inside that student, there was a hero inside that professor. It’s all what we’re made of mentally and emotionally that will cause how we react to any given situation. I think you would try to help, Stew ’cause you’re a good guy (especially if it was a room full of sheepies!)
on April 20, 2007 at 8:05 pm | Reply benning

I wish I knew what I would do. I’d like to think I’d have the “stuff” to go after the gunman, or block a door, or something. But I really don’t know.

Military training does prepare folks for the unexpected, and the ability to act in dangerous, potentially lif-threatening circumstances. College classes do not.

And a gun-free zone doesn’t help matters when a law-breaker comes along.
on April 20, 2007 at 11:12 pm | Reply Anna

I feel the same, benning. And if a psychopath wants to hurt/kill someone, a gun-free zone and/or gun laws are not going to stop them. I wish more people realized that.
on April 22, 2007 at 9:31 am | Reply Desktopjunk

Thanks, always good posts on your blog!
on April 22, 2007 at 10:07 am | Reply Anna

Thank you, desktopjunk! It means a lot to me to know that people enjoy my blog!
on April 22, 2007 at 2:41 pm | Reply Anna Puna

It does come down to what is inside each person. It comes down to mindset, shall I cower like a lamb awaiting slaughter or shall I be the lion? Unfortunately college helps instill a sense of safety by such things as declaring the area a gun free zone, as if wishes become reality by just uttering them. They also engender a feeling of security when they downplay crime on campus and pretend there is not a problem.

Just a few on that campus that day decided they would be lions. Some paid with their lives while others paid in pain and blood. They should be honored as brave people.

As for Cho. There were warning signs but was there enough to take preventive action? Only if one knew everything about Cho it seems. Taken in isolation would any of the things he is known to have done raised eyebrows? Only the stalking would I think. Everything else would not have caused a ruffled feather considering the kind of wildlife that does exist on campus. Cho it seems got lost in the background noise of 26,000 students.
on April 22, 2007 at 2:47 pm | Reply Anna

Anna, you’re probably right, which is why there should be more communication between departments. Whether it’s the mental health facilities and police departments or the English department and the student counseling departments. Warning signs were there, but each put it off as something insignificant, but when taken as a whole…

I just can’t get over the senselessness about it all. Playing the blame game doesn’t solve anything.
on April 23, 2007 at 12:47 am | Reply Hapkido

It’s tough to imagine the situation. Assuming you can put yourself “there”, it’s still not an easy question to answer.
I’ve never been much of a self-preservation type – at least not when it comes to other people – meaning that I’d find more value in my life knowing I did something to benefit/save another. It’s a potentially tragic means of achieving success in my life, but one I’ve always been willing to make.
That’s not to say I wouldn’t freeze at the moment-of-truth. I’ve been in the military (Navy), am well-trained in self-defense & have basic weapons knowledge but the most anyone’s tried to do is choke me. While that wasn’t a problem to avoid, I can’t say if I’d view a gun in my face in a similar manner. Yes, the guy choking you can possibly kill you but the gun-in-hand represents a near-certainty of death.
All that being said, I’d say my goal would be to position myself to take out the attacker by any means available – knowing well that this may result in becoming a casualty. If the only thing I could do is run interference for others to escape, I’m certain enough of my character that it would be done. Better to die in defense of someone’s life than live in guilt of his or her death.
on April 23, 2007 at 11:22 am | Reply Anna

Very good points, Hapkido! I would like to think I would do the same, though I probably couldn’t take the person out, I could be a distraction in hopes of others getting out. I just can’t say for certain what I would do if faced with the situation, though.
on April 23, 2007 at 1:12 pm | Reply Hapkido

Anna,
I’m fortunate to know a few tricks from years of training.

That being said, I will fully admit I’d be scared out of my wits! Even the thought of the situation – obviously that can’t carry the full intensity & fear of the real thing – frightens me.

I’m a firm believer that courage has nothing to do with the absence of fear – it involves facing your fear & understanding why it needs to be overcome.

Thanks for the excellent question in your original post!
on April 23, 2007 at 3:24 pm | Reply Anna Puna

Anna, I am sorry if I gave the impression of playing the blame game. I am not trying to. But the human tendacy to imagine it could never happen to me is something that is no stranger to colleges and their administrations either. Nor is the bureacratic mindset of damage control, image matters more than truth.

I will play blame game with NBC for airing Cho’s manifesto, giving him even more noteriety than he deserved. All for the sake of a few rating points. Pox on NBC.

Now the task is to sort out what went right and what went wrong while hoping people will be adult enough to accept the findings and act upon them. And for the familes of the killed some healing while the wounded also need healing. Keep them in prayers.
on April 23, 2007 at 5:11 pm | Reply Anna

Thank you Hapkido for coming by and commenting. I wanted it to be thought provoking and I have really enjoyed the responses!
on April 23, 2007 at 5:14 pm | Reply Anna

Oh, no Anna, I should have been more specific! I know you weren’t doing that. I should have said “the MSM” isn’t solving anything by playing the blame game. It’s irritating that the “news” gets all up in everyone’s faces about who should be blamed and the one that should be blamed is Cho, but he’s gained his spot in history and NBC certainly made sure it’ll be more than a paragraph.
on April 24, 2007 at 2:33 pm | Reply ymarsakar

http://freestudents.blogspot.com/2007/04/when-mass-killers-meet-armed-resistance.html
on April 24, 2007 at 2:52 pm | Reply Gayle Miller

I don’t KNOW what I would have done. I’d like to think I’d display the Professor’s level of courage.

But unless you are actually in that situation, how can you really tell?
on April 24, 2007 at 4:52 pm | Reply Brian

Anna;

After reading the volume of comments, I wanted to share with you my comments of that day I wrote for my son.

http://oneoarinthewater.blogspot.com/2007/04/being-prepared-in-safe-environment.html

Regards,
on April 24, 2007 at 5:33 pm | Reply Anna

Great post, thanks Ymarsakar! I knew about the armed resistance in a couple of those, but not all of them.
on April 24, 2007 at 5:34 pm | Reply Anna

That is the big unknown, Gayle. Like you, I would hope to be courageous, but hopefully I’ll never know.
on April 24, 2007 at 5:37 pm | Reply Anna

Great post, Brian. I will have to give them to my daughter, although she would never carry a gun or knife, I could at least get her to carry pepper spray. Knowing your environment is probably the most important. I think people don’t pay enough attention to what is around them and that’s how they find themselves trapped. Thanks for the link…I’ll pass it along!
on April 25, 2007 at 9:09 pm | Reply Andrea

I’m pondering that one, Anna. That’s a tough one.

Andrea
on April 26, 2007 at 7:49 am | Reply Anna

Yes, it is, Andrea. One that I hope we never have to find out the answer to.
on April 30, 2007 at 3:04 pm | Reply Nail

For my own sake, I’d like to think that I could make the decision to potentially sacrifice myself in that same situation, especially in the case where I would have some sort of authority position as the professor did (although teaching a class does NOT obligate you to sacrifice your life!). But here’s the rub; I have a wife and six children. So the decision hangs not just on my own fate, but also on the impact to my family having to go on without me in their lives.
That’s not an easy one, and I honestly don’t know. I think if I felt I had a reasonably good chance of survival, and people were certain to die if I took no action, I would go for it. But if I were almost certain to die, then I’m really not sure because of my family.
on May 1, 2007 at 7:00 am | Reply Anna

Very good point, Nail (no pun intended). It would be a tough decision. Let us hope and pray that we never find ourselves in that situation so we don’t have to make that decision.

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