No, it’s not that! As bandit.three.six calls these people - M&Mers (microwave mentality). They are the ones who cannot see the good being done in Iraq. They are the ones who think that we should have been able to (if we really had to) go in, do some “shock & awe” and get out. Bandit brought together some great facts for those who believe Iraq is a failure and we’re not doing anything constructive or helpful there.
I think that one of the larger reasons that so many Americans think that the war isn’t going well is because they’ve adopted what I like to call the “microwave mentality” or M&M for short. Some people call it instant gratification, but I like to keep things simple and easy to understand so that the M&Mers don’t have to waste time thinking about it for it to make sense.
Think of it like this: you grab a Crispy Crust Hot Pocket out of the freezer, toss it in the microwave, set the timer for 3 minutes and presto, you’ve got dinner. What the M&Mers do is apply this same logic to pretty much everything else including war; grab some troops, toss them into Iraq, set the timer and presto, you’ve got victory. What’s so deceptive about this is that it’s almost true. Take out the step where the timer is set and you’ve got it.
Perhaps a short review of what happened to other countries after we beat them militarily would help M&Mers understand how well we’re doing:
Germany – 10 years from the end of combat ops to sovereignty despite having previously had an elected government. US troops still present.
8 May 1945 – Surrender
23 May 1947 – Establishment of West Germany Government
5 May 1955 – West Germany is sovereign
12 October 2006 – US troops still present
Japan – 6.5 years from the end of combat ops to sovereignty, never previously had elected government. US troops still present.2 September 1945 – Surrender
3 May 1947 – Constitution is ratified
28 April 1952 – Japan is sovereign
12 October 2006 – US troops still present
Iraq – 3 years from the end of combat ops to elected government despite decades of tyranny. US troops still present1 May 2003 – End of combat ops against Iraq
15 October 2005 – Constitution is approved
8 June 2006 – Democratically elected government is seated
12 October 2006 – US troops still presentPatience M&Mers, we’re doing good over here.
There is good being done in Iraq. The Iraqi Security Forces are gaining strength everyday. The Iraqi people are standing up for themselves and are working for their own independent government. Is it too much to ask to give them the support and time that they need to be truly free and independent?
i beg to differ. iraq has been occupied in some form or another for the greater part of 748 years. the difficulties there are far more complex than the current incredibly naive bush administration realized. you speak of freedom and independence because you are looking at iraq through your cultural filter. and, western culture attaches high value to the principles of freedom and independence. do you honestly think a mass of humans who have been colonized, occupied, dominated for 748 years has any collective national identity? think again. perhaps inform yourself before you judge those who question what is going on in iraq. and ask yourself this — do the iraqis want the west there? the answer is clear …
Number of American soldiers killed by post surrender hostilities in Germany and Japan: Zero. That’s because the occupations of Japan and Germany were very carefully planned and executed. It apparently takes a Democrat President to successfully prosecute and finish a war. There was no occupation plan for Iraq, in fact the people who had the “microwave mentality” about Iraq were the Bush adminstration who thought we could shoot our way into Baghdad with a token army and the aftermath would take care of itself as grateful Iraqis threw flowers at our troops. No amount of time will fix the bloody mess Bush’s ill conceived, unplanned, and poorly executed invasion has resulted in. But I do admire people’s abilty to think positive despite five years of being wrong. And I hope you are encouraging your friends and loved ones to join the Army and go to Iraq to keep “helping them” so that my friends and loved ones don’t have to.
Doug
Velvetacidquill, I’m sorry that you feel I am uninformed because I do not agree with your point of view. Isn’t it wonderful that we have the ability to voice those differences of opinion?
Doug,
I think you’ve forgotten that our military is all voluntary. No one is asking your friends or loved ones to enlist. They do not “have to” join, it is their choice. And I would certainly support any friends or family who chose to enlist just as I have and will continue to support those who are already serving.
Doug never heard of the Werwolves, hold-out true believing SS troops that killed American and British soldiers after VE Day.
And Velvetacidquill, how do you define occupation? Do you mean the Mongols? The Caliphates of such as Saladin? Chaldeans or Persians? Tigris/Euphrates, like Megiddio, has been the crossroads of trade and war for centuries.
LOL !
“naive Bush Administration “
oh so amusing…
yes, actually prior to liberation, the 27 Million Iraqis greatly desired to be freed from Saddam.
or, did you believe they loved Saddam?
velvetacidquill ?
you are all knowing?
hehehehee…
so why did the newly elected Government, of Iraqi People, by Free Iraqi People, ask the US ARMED FORCES and the rest of the Allies of Operation Iraqi Freedom, to stay?
unitedcats?
one of my Great Uncle’s Best Friends was indeed killed in Germany post WW2, by loyalists for the Nazi cause…
you are a complete fool, if you believe V-DAY or V-J Day meant the end of combat, or an instant creation of stability.
did you ever hear of the Berlin Airlift?
sure, that plan went well, dividing Berlin and Germany in two, giving half of Europe to the monstrous Communists.
hhehehehe…
of course there was a plan in regards to Iraq, and few Democracies have been created so quickly.
these liberals are desperate, in denial, and sadly have no desire to advocate for the freedom of others, because of a mindless political bigotry against Republicans.
it is pretty sad, and quite pathetic.
to imagine they would want a world with a killer like Saddam, or would fail to support a battle against monstrous Radical Muslim Militants.
amazing, they continue to show their ignorance and self interest.
Anna, thank you so much for coming by! You have such a vast knowledge of history and it is much appreciated!
BB, your response to my commenters gave me a smile! I can just see you in a debate!
I have read far too many articles, blog posts (of “boots on the ground”) and interviews with Iraqis to believe that they hate the U.S. and feel their country is being occupied. I have no doubt there are some who do feel that way, but they are vastly outnumbered by those who would like our troops to stay just until they can stand on their own.
I am gathering together some articles to prove that point, but it’s going to take a while as there are so many of them!
Thanks for coming by and giving me a smile, BB!
What’s so deceptive about this is that it’s almost true. Take out the step where the timer is set and you’ve got it.
Ja, but you know, there are several power settings on the microwave. If I just slap in a frozen thingamabobe, and set it to 3 minutes on high, it might be hot on the outside but cold on the inside. It looks done, it feels done on the outside, but the frost on the inside just barely is starting to melt. Then if you just set 3 minutes on high for a room temperature hot pocket, it might blow up and all the gooey stuff inside would leak out and you would have a mess. Then it would also be too hot to pick up, so you’re like hungry but can’t eat it without being burned.
The people who just don’t pay attention, just put it on high and don’t care about what happens. That might just be sub-optimal when talking about a quick lunch, but when people’s lives are at risk, as with Iraq, that is no longer an acceptable methodology and plan.
It’s a lot better to put the power setting on medium to low, then set it to twice as long, 6 minutes. This helps defrost as well as prevent explosive goey leakages. There are no Short and Victorious Wars. Even for Sun Tzu, he had to get his army prepared and marching, which took time, even if the city he was besieging surrendered instantly.
Patience M&Mers, we’re doing good over here.
Rather, if the M and Mers want to microwave something up, they should stick their hand into the oven, not mine own. That way, if they mess up, they are going to suffer, nobody else.
It apparently takes a Democrat President to successfully prosecute and finish a war.
It takes a couple of nuclear bombs to finish a war, I agree. Internment camps for foreign agents, also good idea, I agree. Man, you on the roll!!
And I hope you are encouraging your friends and loved ones to join the Army and go to Iraq to keep “helping them” so that my friends and loved ones don’t have to.
That would be a great deal if you guys stopped voting and interfering, then the people fighting in Iraq would only have to listen to those in the States that want to help them, instead of those who just want other people to go in their stead. If the vanguard is going to be getting depleted, they at least need to be lead by civilians who are actually with them, instead of the civilians who prefer sending other people into war yet feel the need to make changes to the plan. It’s a nice compromise, as I see it. People get to stay back in the US and don’t get any risks, so they don’t get any input into the war planning and policies. Those who do go into Iraq, are safe in the knowledge that their civilian leaders want them to be there because it is a good cause, not because the volunteer military benefits the civilians personally.
Anna said,
October 13, 2006 at 6:41 pm
Doug,
I think you’ve forgotten that our military is all voluntary. No one is asking your friends or loved ones to enlist. They do not “have to” join, it is their choice. And I would certainly support any friends or family who chose to enlist just as I have and will continue to support those who are already serving.
His point, Anna, is that he wants you and your side to go out and die, so that he doesn’t have to be bothered by your policies or beliefs. Because he believes Iraq is a waste, and so long as you are wasting your lives, he is okay with that. However, that’s not how it is set up. He still has a voice in policies, he still votes. So his philosophy basically comes out as Iraq is a waste, anyone that goes there does so against good sense, and it is their life to waste. So does Doug refuse to support any organization or party that is against the war? Why would he feel the need to have people like the military waste their lives, so he can ignore the situation, yet he isn’t ignoring it, but actively interfering?
If it was just, “go to Iraq, if you want, and get yourselves killed. History will prove one of us right, I’ll just let Bush do whatever he wants”, then it would be FINE. They leave us alone, we leave them alone. We do our thing, they do things. But that is not how it works, currently.
The compromise as I have outlined it, therefore does not benefit the military, Bush, or the conservative coalition all that much.
That’s because the occupations of Japan and Germany were very carefully planned and executed.
Now if the Democrats were in charge, you would see quite a bloodbath. American internment camps for Japanese-Americans, use of nuclear weapons on highly populated cities, and absolute ruthlessness and lack of negotiation, all these are the traits of the Democrat party. So when Doug says “carefully planned and executed”, I suggest you underscore executed.
This is what they want. This is what they like. Bush is unpopular amongst Democrats, Arabs, Europeans, AND Jacksonians precisely because he is too compassionate, he listens too much and uses diplomacy too much, and he isn’t as hardcore ruthless as Democrats Truman and Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt was a progressive as well you know, not a compassionate conservative in the least.
If people want to satisfy people like Doug, then you have to kill a lot of the enemy, heap their bodies on top of each other, and use a nuke to fire up a pyre for them. They won’t be satisfied with anything else. They won’t be happy, but they will be satisfied. At least they will quiet down a mite. This goes for both Arabs, Europeans, and Jacksonians. There is nothing like demonstration of power, to cause a moment of silence.
Ironic isn’t it? They want a Democratic solution which, if we go according to history, includes atomic bombs and internment camps. Yet when the Republican Commander-in-Chief uses the military (instead of atomic bombs and internment camps) in war, he is called a warmonger. And when our soldiers try to defend themselves against enemies that will hide behind women and children, they are brought up on charges of murder. It is all quite frustrating.
Thank you Ymarsarkar for coming by. I often read your insightful comments at Bookworm Room.
Even when Bush does use internment camps, and limits it to mostly foreigners, the Left still calls him a warmonger, that instead he should follow in the foosteps of the Great Democrat War Machine Party. Which would mean FDR, with 4 terms, use of nukes by Truman, and putting Japanese-Americans in POW camps….. Are they that incompetent in the use of logic, or do they just think people like me won’t notice it? Do they really want Bush to be a uniter like FDR was a uniter, and be able to be elected for 4 terms?
Something doesn’t seem to make sense here. When they criticize Bush for being too unilateral, isn’t the reality that Bush is being too multilateral at the UN/ When they criticize Bush of being too multilateral at the NorKo negotiations, doesn’t this mean that they really think Bush is being too unilateral?
oh, what a web we weave, when we first practice to deceive. And compared to real deceivers, like the Arabs and Islamic Jihad, the Democrats are pure amateurs at the game.
It is all quite frustrating.
War is a contest of wills. Guerrila warfare epitomizes such a conflict between wills. It is all about who gives up first. How much damage can you sustain, how much pain may you endure, and how long could you endure it for. If you last longer than the enemy, then you win, defacto. This is a particular attitude a select individuals have.
“Whatever damage you inflict upon me, I will return a thousand fold back unto you”
The military has been trained to resist enemy propaganda, to obey, to maintain discipline and NOT panic. So when they see all the news reports back home, they understand well the effects on an untrained and vulnerable civilian population. Because many of the things they were trained to resist from the enemy in terms of propaganda, are found in media reports directed towards the American people. Remember Tokyo Rose? I bet she kept talking about how American forces kept surrendering and things were going badly, so why not quit and join the glorious Empire of the Setting Sun? It was obvious to American Marines then, and it is obvious to American Marines now.
Thank you Ymarsarkar for coming by. I often read your insightful comments at Bookworm Room.
So many good blogs to read, and so few hours in the day. So I usually just concentrate on one or two at a time, for a certain period of time. Thanks for your kind words, Anna.
Your deceiver comment had me thinking of school children trying to lie, failing and getting angry because no one believes them! That anger has become a perpetual state!
I may get frustrated, but I don’t give up! I will strive to be a “voice” to counteract those who would try to bring down morale. The Marines (all our military) may know that they have support, but it’s better to show them.
You are correct…there are many, many blogs and never enough time!
I may get frustrated, but I don’t give up!
I know you won’t give up. Yours is an example of the core strength of America. So long as the core strength of America remains, defeat is not on the horizon.
Thank you!
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